May 7, 2024: Washington D.C., Day 2, Meetings in the U.S. State Department & Others
“My deceased mother keeps appearing in my dreams.“
Hello. Today is the second day of Venerable Pomnyun Sunim’s meetings in Washington D.C. with officials from the U.S. government, Congress, and think tanks to discuss peace on the Korean peninsula.
Sunim started his day with morning practice and meditation at 5 AM at the Washington Jungto Center. Since he had a breakfast meeting, he skipped breakfast and left for Washington D.C. at 6:45 AM.
At 8 AM, he met with Ambassador Joseph DeTrani and Mr. Keith Luse, Executive Director of the National Committee on North Korea (NCNK), at a hotel in downtown Washington D.C.
Ambassador DeTrani was the Special Envoy for the Six-Party Talks with North Korea and, based on Sunim’s advice, he played a key role in reaching a joint declaration agreement between North Korea and the U.S. on September 19, 2005. Mr. Luse has had a long-standing relationship with Sunim since his days as a senior advisor to Senator Richard Lugar, then Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Both gentlemen are old friends of Sunim. They have listened to his advice and worked hard to improve North Korea-U.S. relations.
After a warm greeting, they had an extensive discussion on how to resolve the North Korea-U.S. relations. Ambassador DeTrani first asked Sunim a question:
How Can We Bring North Korea Back to the Negotiation Table?”
“From Kim Il-sung to Kim Jong-il, and Kim Jong-un, the three generations of leaders of North Korea have always wanted to normalize relations with the U.S. However, the nuclear program has always been the issue. The U.S. stance is that nuclear development is absolutely unacceptable, while North Korea has the opposite stance. I think that the joint declaration on September 19, 2005 was the highest level of agreement ever reached between the two countries. Since then, it has been a downhill path, and now they are far from that point of agreement. The possibility of war on the Korean peninsula is higher than ever, and the current military cooperation between North Korea and Russia is also a significant problem. Is there a way for North Korea and the U.S. to sit down at the negotiation table again? I would like to hear Venerable Pomnyun Sunim’s insight.”
Sunim first expressed his gratitude to Ambassador DeTrani:
“I would like to take this opportunity to thank you again for your role in the 2005 Six-Party Talks Agreement. It was the highest level of agreement that could resolve the conflict on the Korean peninsula since the division. Nineteen years have passed since then. The agreement broke down due to the freezing of North Korean accounts at Banco Delta Asia (BDA).”
“Yes, I remember it vividly.”
“Looking back now, the question is, ‘What has been accomplished 19 years later?’ We need to examine whether our goal of North Korean nuclear disarmament has been achieved, or if it has proliferated. The result is that North Korea’s nuclear capabilities have expanded. The price paid by North Korea was the suffering of its people. Neither has the North Korean leadership collapsed, nor has North Korean society changed, but the suffering of the North Korean people has continued to increase. If the September 19 Agreement had been upheld despite the Banco Delta Asia issue, North Korea’s nuclear program might have been halted. Even if their nuclear program had continued, it would not have escalated as much. North Korean society would have changed, and the suffering of the North Korean people would have been alleviated.
Reflecting on the past, we must learn lessons from the past in planning what to do in the future. If things continue as they are, there is a high likelihood that things will be the same even 20 years from now. To bring North Korea to the negotiating table, the U.S. needs to consider the changed circumstances and intervene more actively.
North Korea’s Changes Status in the International Arena
North Korea’s situation has become better than before. First, it has the backing of Russia and China, both permanent members of the UN Security Council. Through military cooperation with Russia, North Korea is receiving supplies of oil and food. Most importantly, there is a possibility of a transfer of Russia’s latest military technology to North Korea. From North Korea’s perspective, there is no longer a need to desperately seek dialogue with the U.S. However, for North Korea to become a normal country, it must improve its relations with the U.S. Therefore, my opinion is that, although until now, the normalization of North Korea-U.S. relations was seen as an exit strategy for denuclearization, but now, due to changed circumstances, it should be considered an entry strategy. We should propose the normalization of relations with North Korea under the condition of nuclear freeze, not nuclear dismantlement.
The most crucial issue now is to prevent the proliferation of North Korean nuclear technology. North Korea’s nuclear production is increasing, and the technology to miniaturize nuclear weapons for actual use is also advancing. Its long-range missile technology is improving, and its nuclear submarine technology continues to advance. Recently, due to North Korea’s military cooperation with Russia, the pace of its nuclear technology development is likely to accelerate. If this continues, it will become very difficult for the U.S. to control North Korea in the future.
In the past, North Korea was a bit of a headache for China and Russia. However, now it has become a useful partner in achieving their goals. Russia is effectively using North Korea in the war with Ukraine, and China also needs to use North Korea to divert attention from the heightened tensions with Taiwan. In the past, North Korea’s militarization was a headache, but now it has become a favorable factor for both Russia and China. We need to consider these changed conditions in handling North Korea. It’s not important what North Korea claims. The U.S. must focus on how it should handle North Korea for the national interest of the U.S.”
“How should the United States deal with North Korea?”
“First, the U.S. needs to normalize relations with North Korea. The condition should be a nuclear freeze, not nuclear dismantlement. In return, there is no need to provide economic support. However, sanctions on the support of daily necessities should be lifted. If we want to reduce the amount of North Korea’s nuclear weapons and not just stop at a freeze, corresponding economic support measures are necessary.”
“If diplomatic relations between the U.S. and North Korea are established without nuclear dismantlement, the U.S. will show itself as weak, and wouldn’t that make the situation worse? Then I think public opinion in the U.S. will also worsen.”
“In 1992, when South and North Korea joined the UN simultaneously, South Korea established diplomatic relations with Russia and China. At the time, North Korea should have also established diplomatic relations with the U.S. and Japan to be fair. From this perspective, the U.S. establishing diplomatic relations with North Korea is not a special favor given to North Korea. It’s just a delayed response of what should have happened a long time ago. The issue is nuclear proliferation. If North Korea and the U.S. had established diplomatic relations back then, it would have been possible to prevent North Korea’s nuclear development. But what should we do with North Korea now that it has nuclear weapons? If left to its own devices, the quantity of nuclear weapons will continue to increase. To freeze North Korea’s nuclear development, the U.S. needs to improve relations with North Korea, even if it’s just a little. It’s necessary to think about what should be done right now.”
How Can We at Least Stop the Proliferation of North Korean Nuclear Weapons?
Mr. Keith Luse, the Executive Director, also expressed his opinion.
“However, it is not appropriate to lift the current economic sanctions against North Korea.”
“Despite the economic sanctions against North Korea, North Korean nuclear technology is becoming more sophisticated. The missiles that Russia fired at Ukraine had chips made in the U.S. and Europe. Of course, sanctions against weapons of mass destruction must continue to be strengthened. However, sanctions corresponding to humanitarian aid should be lifted because the people of North Korea are suffering greatly. It is much easier to establish diplomatic relations with North Korea than to lift sanctions on weapons of mass destruction. Establishing diplomatic relations does not cost money. If the U.S. establishes diplomatic relations with North Korea, the U.S. will be able to monitor North Korea’s nuclear program from inside North Korea. The continuous proliferation of North Korea’s weapons of mass destruction will become a major threat to East Asia. We need to focus on preventing this; other matters are secondary.”
“I think diplomatic relations between North Korea and the United States will be difficult.”
“It will be difficult if nuclear dismantlement is the condition, but I think it’s possible if the condition is a nuclear freeze. Because for the U.S., if North Korea doesn’t keep its promise, it can re-impose economic sanctions, and for North Korea, since it’s only a freeze of its nuclear program, it can resume development again if the U.S. fails to keep its promise. It’s a no-loss situation for both sides. If it’s difficult to remove economic sanctions, it’s also possible to consider suspending them for a certain period.”
“I think it’s a good suggestion.”
“From the U.S. perspective, it won’t be easy to follow my suggestion. Because politicians have to be concerned about domestic public opinion. Therefore, a president who is actively trying to improve relations with North Korea or doesn’t care much about domestic public opinion will be able to implement changes at the beginning of their term.” (laughter)
Sunim’s suggestions continued. He explained how improving relations with North Korea would help the U.S. from both military and economic perspectives. After discussing the current food situation in North Korea, how much the people are suffering, and humanitarian aid, the meeting ended.
As they left the restaurant after an hour and a half of conversation, Sunim thanked Ambassador DeTrani once again.
“I always feel grateful on behalf of the Korean people for your role in bringing about the 2005 Six-Party Talks Agreement. Although it ultimately failed, that agreement was the best agreement we’ve had so far. That’s why I want to reinstate that agreement again.”
“Thank you so much for what you do. Peace is so important. I really admire what you do. You have significant influence because people see you as objective and dedicated to the common good. Thank you so much for what you do.”
Ambassador DeTrani thanked Sunim several times and firmly shook his hand. After promising to meet again, Sunim moved to the next meeting location. On the way, Sunim recalled the day the 2005 Agreement was reached 19 years ago.
“The 2005 Six-Party Talks Agreement was reached on Korea’s Chuseok holiday. Right after the agreement was reached, Ambassador DeTrani sent me an email. It said, ‘We succeeded in reaching an agreement thanks to the idea you gave us.’ We should invite Ambassador Joseph DeTrani and Mr. Keith Luse to Korea before they get much older.”
In Washington D.C., there are not only U.S. government agencies but also numerous NGOs and think tanks. After a 30-minute car ride, Sunim met with another old friend, Frank Jannuzi, at the Mansfield Foundation office.
“Nice to meet you. You look very good.”
“I am always doing well.” (laughter)
Director Frank Jannuzi, who worked for a long time in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee as an aide to President Biden of the Democratic Party, is actively providing policy advice to the Democratic Party. After a warm greeting, they moved to another place and began a serious discussion. Sunim explained how U.S. policy toward North Korea should change to improve North Korea-U.S. relations.
After listening to Sunim’s explanation, Director Frank Jannuzi pointed out that the nuclear freeze proposed by Sunim might be too much for the American people to accept.
Doesn’t a Nuclear Freeze Essentially Mean Acknowledgment North Korea’s Nuclear Program?
“The American people fear that agreeing to a nuclear freeze with North Korea ultimately means accepting their nuclear program. I agree that demanding nuclear dismantlement from North Korea is too excessive. What I’m curious about is what North Korea wants. Will North Korea agree to a nuclear freeze and the improvement of North Korea-U.S. relations?”
Sunim answered:
“North Korea’s highest priority is to maintain its regime. Therefore, national security is something they cannot compromise. For instance, they would not accept a nuclear umbrella from China or Russia because they prioritize self-defense. That’s why I see nuclear dismantlement as difficult. The issue should be how many nuclear weapons will we let them produce. We have to choose between allowing them to produce just enough for defense and allowing them to produce so much that it becomes a threat to other countries.
North Korea wants to develop its economy, but it’s not their top priority. They want economic development provided that their national security is guaranteed. They have no intention of developing their economy at the expense of national security. However, North Korea currently has no way to develop its economy. Even Russia’s economic support is just enough for survival, not for development.
Considering these two points, we should propose a relationship that promotes economic growth while maintaining national security. First, North Korea’s nuclear freeze is the most urgent matter. Second, after that, we need to let North Korea begin its economic recovery. The precondition for this is the normalization of North Korea-U.S. relations. Of course, I think there will be much opposition in the U.S. But what can we do since North Korea already has nuclear weapons? Are we going to wage war to eliminate them? If we can’t go to war, the negotiation I propose is the only way. If we just leave things as they are now, what do you think will happen? Nuclear proliferation will continue. The suffering of the North Korean people will continue.”
Director Jannuzi expressed another concern:
“From the Biden administration’s standpoint, even if they succeed in an agreement with North Korea, it won’t be a showy achievement. It’s too minor a success. Besides the North Korean issue, there are many other urgent problems.”
Sunim responded:
“I agree. Improving North Korea-U.S. relations doesn’t provide much political benefits to the U.S. When an election is approaching, a strong confrontational situation is more effective because dialogue doesn’t produce immediate results. North Korea won’t make dramatic concessions. Rather, North Korea is hoping for dramatic concessions from the U.S. If the Biden administration makes such concessions, it will be disadvantageous in the U.S. election. So, in consideration of both the election victory and the national interest of the U.S., the North Korea-U.S. relations should be resolved shortly after the presidential election. If it’s delayed, the next election will approach and it will be hard to reach an agreement. Therefore, no matter who is elected, it’s necessary to make preparations now so that the plan can be executed immediately after the election.”
Sunim also spoke in detail about the way to approach the specific process from both North Korean and American perspectives to improve North Korea-U.S. relations.
After two hours of conversation, Director Jannuzi expressed his gratitude to Sunim:
“The part where you talked about the importance of the North Korean issue within the context of the Korean peninsula and neighboring countries seems really important. I will spread Sunim’s opinions widely so that many officials in Washington D.C. can embrace them. I will also try to ensure that the next U.S. administration makes preparations in advance.”
Director Jannuzi will be visiting South Korea in June, so Sunim promised to meet again then. The meeting ended at 12 PM.
Sunim immediately headed to the U.S. State Department. There was no time for lunch, so he had a quick box lunch in the car that had been packed in the morning.
Upon arriving at the federal government building, Dr. Son Minseo from the State Department warmly welcomed Sunim.
Sunim entered the State Department and had a conversation about peace on the Korean peninsula with Dr. Son Minseo and the intelligence agency staff. He also had a conversation with Julie Turner, the Special Envoy for North Korean Human Rights, and other State Department East Asia-Pacific staff. Sunim suggested to Special Envoy Julie Turner that efforts should be made to promote universal human rights of North Korean people.
“I hope you will view this from the perspective of how to enhance the rights of all 25 million North Korean people, rather than taking issue with specific incidents of human rights violations in North Korea. Remember, while it is the North Korean regime that is suppressing human rights, it is also the North Korean regime that can improve them. Therefore, dialogue with the North Korean government must come first to enhance North Korean human rights. For example, if leaflets are distributed to provide information to North Korean people, instead of criticizing their leader, they should print the constitution of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, emphasizing how the human rights clauses are written. North Koreans need to realize, ‘Oh, our country’s constitution has these human rights clauses,’ so they can demand improvement in human rights without feeling threatened with their survival. It’s hard to punish them when they demand what’s already guaranteed by law.
First, it’s necessary to ensure that people aren’t punished for things that aren’t against the existing law in North Korea. People arrested by the State Security Department are routinely beaten or detained, but this isn’t allowed by North Korea’s laws. It’s necessary to focus on such universal human rights improvements.
There’s no need to insist on dismantling the political prison camps. You should just demand that sentences be carried out according to North Korean law. If sentences were executed according to North Korean law, most people in the political prison camps would be released. If there are clauses in North Korean law that violate human rights, we must demand improvement, and if existing laws are not being followed, we must demand compliance. By taking a universal approach, we can expand the scope for human rights activism, enable practical improvement of North Korean citizens’ rights, and make it a human rights movement that the North Korean residents can carry out themselves. I don’t think that a democratization movement is only about overthrowing the regime.”
“Yes, that’s a good offer. It was very helpful.”
Lastly, Sunim urged the Special Envoy for North Korean Human Rights to play even a small role for peace on the Korean peninsula. After a two-hour conversation, Sunim left the federal government building after 3 PM. In front of the federal government building, citizens were gathered to protest against Israel’s bombing of Gaza. Sunim bowed to the protesters with his hands together and headed toward the U.S. Congress.
At 4 PM, Sunim met with Rep. Michelle Park Steel. Rep. Steel is a Korean-American politician. A member of the Republican Party, she has been a representative for a Californian district since 2021, was reelected last year, and is now preparing for her third term.
After a warm greeting, Sunim made two suggestions:
“There are two reasons I came to see you. First, the risk of war on the Korean peninsula is increasing. Cooperation between Korea, the U.S., and Japan is a military response to North Korea but does not prevent the proliferation of North Korea’s weapons of mass destruction. The U.S. should engage in dialogue with North Korea to stop the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and bring peace to East Asia. On one hand, we need to work on military defense, and on the other hand, we need to solve problems through dialogue. That’s why I want to ask U.S. lawmakers to actively work for peace on the Korean peninsula. After all, we must prevent the outbreak of war.
Second, the resolution for exemptions to the travel restrictions of Korean-American citizens who want to reunite with their separated families in North Korea has been passed. If North Korea-U.S. dialogue resumes next year, we need to enable these separated families to reunite quickly. And there is one more thing. Many people have already passed away without the chance to be reunited with their separated families. Perhaps it is necessary to ensure that even if they cannot visit their hometowns while alive, they can be buried there after death. I believe this approach can touch people’s hearts from a humanitarian perspective. So, I hope you can actively support this cause.”
“I will work hard to push this forward. My father’s hometown is Pyongyang, and my mother’s is Sinuiju. They met in Busan during the Korean War and had me.”
“Then, you have a strong reason to pursue this with a sense of purpose.”
Rep. Steel gladly accepted Sunim’s suggestions. They took a commemorative photo together and Sunim left the office.
Next, Sunim moved to a restaurant to meet peace activists Annabel Park and Reverend Richard Tafel. In the restaurant, both welcomed Sunim warmly.
“It’s been a while. How have you been?”
“I have been well.”
movements but also in driving policy changes to make society more peaceful, and they have maintained a long relationship with Sunim because they share similar purposes.
Annabel Park asked Sunim a question:
“What achievements have you had during this visit to Washington D.C.?”
“We can’t obtain immediate results.” (laughter)
Sunim and the two discussed the U.S. presidential election over dinner.
“When President Trump was first elected, he was seen as a crazy, strange person, but now former President Trump attempting to be re-elected seems to be accepted as a social phenomenon. What’s the current reaction of the American public?”
Annabel Park responded:
“That’s right. He has become a social phenomenon. Americans seem to want someone with strong power to stabilize the world because it’s so unstable right now. That’s why Trump’s popularity seems to be rising. However, Biden has an image of being a decent person without disqualifying issues. To win the election, Biden needs to appeal that he is a person with greater power.”
Sunim provided a detailed explanation on how to improve North Korea-U.S. relations and solve the North Korean nuclear issue. Reverend Richard Tafel then expressed his concerns:
“Right now, the U.S. is ahead of an election, so the North Korean issue isn’t a priority. Even if you make suggestions, it might be hard for U.S. politicians to show interest.”
“Yes, you are right. My current suggestions are for what should be done after the election. Therefore, I am talking about what preparations we need to make ahead of time. Anyway, if you participate in the election campaign, please make suggestions and play a role for peace on the Korean peninsula.”
“Yes, I will.”
After two hours of conversation, they left the restaurant at 7 PM and took a commemorative photo together.
Having completed all the meeting schedules for today, we headed to the Washington Jungto Society. Sunim fell into a deep sleep in the car. The sun had already set when we arrived at the center at 8 PM.
After a brief rest, Sunim conducted a live broadcast of the Wednesday Dharma Meeting at 9 PM. Since the Dharma Meeting was regularly held at 10 AM Korean time, Sunim had to do a late-night broadcast.
Once all Jungto Society members had joined the live broadcast, Sunim shared his activities from the past week.
“I am currently at the Washington Jungto Center near Washington D.C. the capital of the United States. It is just past 9 PM here. Starting with Columbia University in New York, I have completed a total of 8 Dharma Q&As for English speakers and Korean expatriates. Today, I had meetings with various people in the State Department, Congress, and think tanks in Washington D.C. to discuss peace on the Korean peninsula.”
From April 29 to May 6, Sunim conducted a Dharma Q&A tour in 8 cities in the northeastern U.S. Thanks to Jungto practitioners and volunteers worldwide, the Dharma Q&A tour was successfully concluded. Many people attended the Dharma Q&A in each city, listening to Sunim’s words and becoming a little bit happier. Sunim once again expressed his gratitude and started the conversation.
Four people had registered to ask questions and have a conversation with Sunim. One of them mentioned that their deceased mother had suddenly appeared in a dream, and since then, the image of their mother kept coming to mind, and they sought advice on how to view this situation.
My Deceased Mother Keeps Appearing in My Dreams
“My mother passed away a year ago. Until recently, she hadn’t appeared in my dreams, but she has appeared twice recently. I had been feeling bad because I hadn’t been able to say goodbye to her because she died suddenly, but in my dream, she spoke to me. While I think it’s just a dream, the image of my mother from the dream keeps coming to mind. How should I view this?”
“Just have the perspective that it’s just a dream. You just need to think, ‘I had a dream about my mother.’ Dreams are where many memories of your mother stored in the subconscious emerge while your consciousness is resting. You should just think. ‘It’s just a dream’ without giving it special meaning.
You could try to analyze why you had a dream about your mother. There isn’t a specific meaning to the dream itself, but you can analyze why you had such a dream. Perhaps you’ve been missing your mother a lot recently.
Sometimes, when you have a dream and call your parents to inquire if they are doing well, you may find that your parents are unwell. That’s why people sometimes say, ‘Dreams are significant.’ However, from a psychoanalytic perspective, a dream is where all experiences seen, heard, and felt are stored in the warehouse of the subconscious and emerge when the consciousness rests during sleep. It’s like live broadcasting stops and recorded broadcasting starts. It’s best to view it as ‘I had a dream.’ If you want to think about it a little more, you can reflect on yourself, thinking ‘I’ve been lonely recently’ or ‘I’ve been missing my mother.’”
“Yes, thank you. After hearing your words, I feel at ease.”
The questions continued. After an hour of Q&A, the live broadcast ended at 10 PM. It had been another long day.
Tomorrow morning, Sunim will have a meeting at the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). At lunch, he will meet with Rep. Brad Sherman and talk with the aides of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. In the afternoon, he will visit the Brookings Institution for a meeting, and in the evening, he will have a meeting related to the Bhutan Sustainable Development Project.
