May 4, 2024: North America East Coast Dharma Q&A Tour (6) Atlanta
“How can I restore my relationship with my wife, who has become indifferent to me?”
Hello. Today, the sixth Dharma Q&A of Venerable Pomnyun Sunim’s 2024 North America East Coast tour took place in Atlanta, Georgia, the largest city in the southeastern United States.
Venerable Pomnyun Sunim woke up early to review a manuscript and left for Dallas Fort Worth International Airport at 5:20 AM. Han Yong-woo and Lee Hyang-hee were also up early and kindly packed a breakfast for him to eat at the airport.
Originally the plan was to depart at 5:30 AM, but we hurried and left 10 minutes early. It turned out to be a good decision since the police were blocking parts of the highway, and there was a lot of traffic.
We arrived at the airport at 6:10 AM. After thanking Han Yong-woo for his support in providing accommodations, meals, and transportation during his stay in Dallas, Sunim went into the airport to check in.
After completing the check-in process a little past 7:00 AM, Sunim sat down and ate the breakfast that had been packed for him. After a hearty meal, Sunim boarded the plane to Atlanta. The plane took off at 8:15 AM.
Sunim continued to review various documents during the flight. We arrived at Atlanta Airport at 11:00 AM. After we collected our luggage, we met Park Ha-young, a member of Jungto Society, who welcomed us warmly.
We loaded the luggage and immediately headed to the Dharma Q&A venue. Initially, we had planned to eat something for lunch in the car due to the tight schedule. However, thanks to the plane arriving early and construction work at the airport being paused, we reached the Dharma Q&A venue ahead of time.
Today’s Dharma Q&A is being held at the Korean Cultural Center of Atlanta. Sunim held a Dharma Q&A here in 2019, and this is his first visit in five years since the COVID-19 pandemic.
Upon arriving at the venue, volunteers were energetically making preparations for the Dharma Q&A. We had lunch provided by the members of Jungto Society, and at 1:15 PM, Sunim engaged in a conversation with the volunteers.
Everyone introduced themselves. Most of them were members of Jungto Society, but there were about ten non-members present as well. After the introductions, Sunim briefly described some of the work Jungto Society engages in.
“During Dharma Q&As, we hold conversations based on the perspective that everyone, regardless of their race, religion, or nationality, may live freely and happily. These Dharma Q&As, where anyone with personal troubles can come and find liberation through a conversation, are the foundation of Jungto Society’s activities. Because some people find it difficult to practice what they learn from these Dharma Q&As on their own, we run the Happiness School, where anyone, irrespective of their religion, can learn how to be happy. If they find the first four-week course beneficial, they can enroll in the second course and continue for another month. And those who graduate from the two courses of the Happiness School, they can become members of the Happiness Group, which engage in social action in their community. For those who want to learn about Buddhism in a structured way, there’s the Jungto Dharma School. You can become a member of Jungto Society upon graduation or decide to leave after graduating. As a member, you are entitled to attend Weekly Dharma Meetings on Wednesdays and participate in Meditation Retreats. After attending the Awakening Retreat, you can also participate in the Sharing Retreat and join the pilgrimage to sacred sites in India and Nepal.
To Enable Everyone to Live Happily
Jungto Society is composed entirely of volunteers. No one receives a salary, including full-time volunteers, because Jungto Society is a community of practitioners.
Additionally, Jungto Society is heavily involved in social movements. For instance, we started ‘Ecobuddha’ to promote a campaign to consume less and eat less, which is part of an environmental movement questioning how to live in the age of a climate crisis. Globally, we are engaged in humanitarian relief efforts in various countries through ‘Join Together Society (JTS)’ in Asia and beyond. Currently, we are working on rebuilding schools in the earthquake-affected areas of Syria and constructing schools for indigenous and Muslim communities in Mindanao, Philippines. These days, we are also making extensive preparations in Bhutan to create a new model for sustainable development, and we are active in many other countries in Asia. Furthermore, we have established the ‘Peace Foundation’ to work for peace on the Korean peninsula. This week, I plan to visit various U.S. government agencies in Washington D.C., including the State Department and Department of Defense, to discuss with security experts on ways to ensure that war never breaks out again on the Korean peninsula. We’ve also founded ‘Good Friends’ to support refugees and protect human rights. We provide various forms of support to help North Korean defectors, Koryo-saram, and foreign workers who settle in Korean society.
While Jungto Society is based on Buddhism, it focuses on initiatives that help people become happy and pursue social justice rather than carrying out religious activities. Therefore, even Christians can become members of Jungto Society. We never coerce anyone into believing in Buddhism, and as a member, you are free to have any religious faith.”
Following these words, people were given an opportunity to freely ask any questions they wanted. One person, seeing Venerable Pomnyun Sunim’s busy schedule, asked:
“Isn’t your schedule too strenuous? Aren’t you tired, especially considering your age?”
“While I sometimes struggle to keep up because of my physical health and stamina, I am perfectly fine mentally. Last week, I visited Bhutan for a week and trekked through high-altitude areas of over 3,000 meters above sea level, and I’m still feeling some aftereffects.
This time, I took experts in various fields with me, including someone who plants and grows chestnut trees on a mountainside. He told me he had many complaints about his farm because of the steep slopes, but after visiting Bhutan, he realized, ‘Compared to Bhutan, my farm might as well be on flat land. I won’t complain again.’ You see, Bhutan isn’t just steep; the mountains are mostly like cliffs. Normally, you would expect farmland along the rivers, but there are only cliffs there. The mountain tops have gentler slopes, so people live on the peaks and farm there. Even though it’s a country abundant with water, the residents, living atop these mountains, complain about the lack of drinking water.
Because hiking through the mountainous areas was strenuous, my voice has become hoarse and very soft. But I’m not particularly sick. Whether something feels difficult or not depends on one’s mindset. When I was riding in the back of a truck in Bhutan, someone asked me, ‘Why do you ride in the back of a truck, isn’t it uncomfortable?’ I responded, ‘Imagine walking up a mountain trail with a load on your back, and a truck offers you a ride. You can’t imagine how grateful you will feel.’ Riding inside the truck, you only see one side of the scenery, but from the back, you can see the sky, the mountains, everything. It’s uncomfortable but there are many benefits. Having a car means you get to your destination quickly, which is good, and not having one means you get some exercise by walking, which is also good.
Life is similar. Whatever situation you are in, in truth, everything is good. If you can always discover the positive side, even if you’re physically tired, you can live with a smile. If you only view any situation negatively, you will always find something to complain about. Today, if you think, ‘I’m happy to meet Sunim and volunteer for others,’ you can do it with a smile. But if you think, ‘I worked four hours and didn’t earn a dime,’ you will be dissatisfied and complain. So, I hope you always keep your mind in a state of happiness.”
After the conversation, they took a commemorative photo.
At 2:00 PM, Sunim had a meeting with a representative from the Chestnut Family Foundation.
Teresa, a former pediatric nurse who has always been deeply concerned with improving the lives of children, and her husband Ben, the CEO of a global software company based in Atlanta, are regular contributors to helping impoverished children worldwide. Recently, they have donated generously to JTS’s school construction projects in Syria and the Philippines through JTS America. Sunim expressed his gratitude to them.
“Thank you for your support in helping those in need. Your generous gifts have allowed JTS to provide support and relief on a larger scale.”
Teresa mentioned that she knew Venerable Pomnyun Sunim had visited Bhutan several times and asked why he hadn’t requested funding for those projects.
How Should We Support the Projects in Bhutan?
“I’ve been reading ‘A Day in the Life of Sunim’ and saw that you have visited Bhutan multiple times. I thought you would request support from our foundation, but you haven’t mentioned anything yet, so we are still waiting.”
“The reason that we haven’t requested any funds for the Bhutan project is that this year is a trial phase. I always experiment first and only request support for things that are proven effective or necessary. I never say, ‘We want to do this project, so please provide us with the funds.’ For example, in India, Sujata Academy was only shown to people and received donations after we developed a model over several years. In Mindanao, Philippines, we have been active for 20 years. Similarly, in Bhutan, we first need to conduct pilot projects this year. Even when building a house, we try to do so at a minimal cost because the less money it takes, the more houses we can build. We also try various methods for house repairs, road maintenance and fencing fields. We are going to experiment with one village at a time—build fences in this village, roads in that one, houses in this village, water supply in that one, irrigation in that village, and schools in that one, etc. to create samples in about a dozen places. This year we’re running pilot projects, and starting next year, we plan to work to improve the lives of all residents in one province over a period of five years.
Even if JTS receives a lot of donations, we can’t use all the money because it must be spent strictly according to JTS principles. No matter how much money is left, if the project doesn’t adhere to the principles, we don’t fund it. For example, when remodeling houses in Bhutan, the local residents must contribute their labor, and the district or county must provide technicians. If the residents don’t make the commitment to work together, we do not support the project, no matter how much money we have. But if they are willing, then we provide as much support as is needed.”
“There are also doubts about whether sustainable development can indeed be successful.”
“Sustainable development is not something that has a high probability of success among people in this day and age. Also, in Korea, a lot of people raise questions, saying ‘Human desire is endless, so won’t it be difficult to stop development at an appropriate level?’ The reason I focus on sustainable development in Bhutan is that the living conditions there are poor. Bhutan’s GDP is around 3,000 USD, just above the threshold of the poorest nations. Nevertheless, the king is governing the country well, keeping the wealth gap small. Traveling around Bhutan, I observed that the people enjoy the living standards of a country with a GDP of around 5,000 USD. There are no beggars, and the streets are clean.
At JTS, we aim to improve residents’ standard of living, especially in areas the government cannot address, by working together with the local residents. So there’s no such thing as failure in this approach. And, because our support improves people’s lives, our work also broadly falls under relief efforts. We call it sustainable development because we do not support activities that might feed human greed. For example, we support raising ten chickens, but we do not support large-scale poultry farms and buying feed. We support their survival needs, but not personal desires for a better life. It’s not that people shouldn’t have desires; rather, they should manage those themselves. We are pursuing sustainable development based on this perspective, so it cannot fail.
Whenever we offer support to any country, from the government’s perspective, there’s always a desire for the latest machinery and facilities. I respond by saying:
‘The government can handle those needs. But, if there is something we can work on together to help those who lack even the basic conditions for living, let’s discuss it. It’s not just about providing aid; the community must be involved. If there’s a shortage of materials for someone to repair their own home or for a community to maintain their neighborhood, we will provide those materials.’
We avoid unilateral support because it does not inspire vitality in people. People need to do their own work to truly come alive. Sustainability isn’t just about environmental issues; it also encompasses enabling self-reliance. If JTS builds a house but the owner can’t maintain it, it’s not sustainable. Hence, we build using locally sourced materials and techniques that the locals can learn and apply themselves. Foreign organizations can’t supply materials indefinitely. Thus, while any projects that we carry out should be environmentally sustainable, it should be conducive to people becoming self-reliant and sustainably maintaining and improving their own lives.”
“Thank you. I really learn a lot from seeing your work. But I find it difficult to preach thriftiness to the organizations I support when I can’t practice it myself. I am reflecting on that these days.”
After an hour of conversation, they ended the meeting, promising to meet again.
After taking a short break, Sunim immediately went backstage. Following an introductory video, the host invited Sunim to the stage, and the auditorium erupted in applause.
Upon reaching the stage, Sunim greeted everyone with a big smile and began his talk:
“What do you think a Dharma talk is? Typically, it’s described as discussing Buddhist doctrines or sutras. However, I don’t see it that way. If we can alleviate our suffering through our conversations, then that can be called a Dharma talk. It remains a Dharma talk even if it doesn’t involve Buddhist doctrines or scriptures, as long as our anxieties vanish when we listen to it. You hear terms like the “words” of Jesus, Buddha, or Confucius. We don’t call it a lecture because through these conversations, our doubts are resolved and our anxieties disappear. Therefore, I think it would be beneficial if we talked about our own most challenging issues as topics of conversation.”
For over two hours, twelve people asked Venerable Pomnyun Sunim questions and engaged in conversations. Among them, one person expressed concern that his wife was so captivated by Venerable Pomnyun Sunim’s Dharma Q&As that she was spending less time with him. He asked how he might be able to recover their former joyful relationship.
How Can I Restore My Relationship with My Wife, Who has Become Indifferent to Me?
“One of my greatest pleasures used to be coming home from work and enjoying a beer while discussing work events, society, and politics with my wife. However, after decades of having such a close relationship, lately, she hardly listens to me, doesn’t prepare snacks for me to have with my beer, and even argues with what I say. Sometimes, she leaves me drinking and talking by myself and goes off on her own. When go see what she’s doing, I find her listening to Venerable Pomnyun Sunim’s Dharma Q&As. So, these days, I have no joy in my life. How can I bring back the good old times with my wife?”
“Do you earn more or less money than you used to?”
“I earn much more now.”
“So, you mean to say that your wife can live comfortably without you now?”
“That’s right. I’ve even set up her own financial account.”
“In the past, she might have pretended to listen because she felt she couldn’t live without you. But now she’s independent enough to think, ‘I can live without you.’ That’s why she is doing what she wants to do.”
“Really? That’s not good…”
“But you’ve helped her to do that, right? Transferring assets to her name and giving her all sorts of advice. In Bhutan, even in rural areas, public education is in English, starting in elementary school. Every child who receives an education knows how to speak English. And the internet is available even in the most remote rural areas. I visited a tiny rural school with just a few students and asked them what they needed. I thought they would ask for notebooks, pens, candy, or a soccer ball, but they asked for a smart TV. In slightly larger towns, students ask for smart boards. I had to ask what a smart board was because I didn’t know it myself. That’s how good public education is there, all the way up to 10th grade. But now, a serious side effect has occurred. Educated youths don’t want to farm any more. So, the rural areas lack farmers, and the Bhutanese government can’t provide enough jobs for these educated youths. Those who don’t understand English only look at the images on YouTube videos, but Bhutanese youths understand English and learn a lot from YouTube. They all want to go abroad, especially to Australia because it accepts many immigrants. I talked to a young civil servant in his twenties, and he told me that only a few of his friends have remained in the country. The rest of his friends have gone abroad. Bhutan is now facing a dilemma. Good education is causing the youths to leave the country, but if the children aren’t educated, the people will lag behind the times.
You are in a dilemma too. You made your wife independent, so she tries to do things on her own. However, if you hadn’t done that, you wouldn’t enjoy her company because she isn’t competent. If you want to have interesting conversations and do things together, your wife needs to be smart, right?”
“Yes, she needs to be smart.”
“Over time, drinking with you and discussing politics and various social issues has made your wife smarter. You’ve made money and passed it on to her, so she’s somewhat financially independent now. Moreover, by frequently listening to my Dharma Q&As, she’s embraced the idea that she should be the master of her own life! (laughter)
She thought her husband was the smartest person and lived in deference to you, but now that she’s over sixty, she sees the world differently. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? You’re the only one who sees it as a bad thing, while everyone else thinks it’s a good thing. So, it’s time for you to change your thinking.
Bhutan was originally a monarchy, but before the people could protest against the monarchy, the king voluntarily relinquished power and transitioned to a constitutional monarchy. Even though he handed over all power to parliament, the people love and favor the king even more. Similarly, you should stop drinking at home every evening, and even if you do drink, rather than keep talking about yourself, you should also listen to what your wife has to say. Ask her about how she feels listening to my Dharma Q&As. We are living in modern times, so if you keep insisting on your old way, there might come a time when she leaves you behind when she moves. (laugh)
So, you really need to come to your senses. If you don’t let go of the thought of ‘That’s how it was in the old days,’ in Korea, you will be called ‘old-fashioned.’ It’s time to stop talking about the old days and adapt to the changed times by listening to your wife, cooking meals, and doing the dishes.”
“I’m good at cooking. I do the dishes too.”
“That’s good to hear. You need to take it a step further by listening to and respecting your wife.”
“Yes, I will do that.”
“Wives need to change their mindsets too. Let me ask the wives. Is your husband your man? Or is your son your man?”
“My husband.”
“But most wives don’t see their husbands as their man but think of their sons, whom they’ve raised, as their man. Thus, they devote much more care and attention to their sons. However, as time goes by and the son grows up, he will never be ‘your man’ because he will become another woman’s man. So, don’t put too much effort into someone else’s man. No matter how young and attractive he is, he’s not your man but someone else’s. Even if a bit older and less attractive, the husband by your side is your man, so you should take good care of what’s yours.
In Korea, on average, men are about four years older than their wives. However, women live about six years longer than men on average. Broadly speaking, this means that wives outlive their husbands by about ten years. I recently hosted a party for about 170 elderly people. If you go to a party with the elderly, you’ll see that 90 percent of the attendees are women. The statement I kept hearing from the grandmothers in the countryside is, ‘There’s no greater blessing than having one’s husband die early.’ (laughter)
Even at a senior center, the elderly men usually aren’t welcomed. When the grandmothers gather, they cook together in the kitchen and share a meal from a single table. But if an elderly man comes, they need to prepare a separate meal for him and do the dishes as well. If you are taking care of your mother-in-law, there may be some nagging issues, but she helps with cooking, does the dishes, and takes care of the grandchildren. However, if you are taking care of a widowed father-in-law, there’s much more work involved as you need to prepare his meals, make his bed and so on. If a husband is widowed or separated, he will find no one who can take better care of him than his wife. No matter how much wealth you give to your children, it’s hard for them to take care of you when you are old or sick. Therefore, men should consider it a blessing to pass away before their wives. That way, at least they’ll be well-fed and properly cared for until the end.
As you age, it’s important for spouses to take care of each other. You shouldn’t let yourself be distracted by other men or women. Spouses need to cherish each other. You might wonder how Venerable Pomnyun Sunim can know this without being married. I live in the countryside and constantly interact with the elderly. It’s interesting to hear their stories. In the past in Korea, parents typically passed away around the age of 60, so they typically took care of their parents for about 20 years, then their kids took care of them for another 20 years, and so on, with each generation caring for the previous one for about 20 years. However, now that the average lifespan has extended to 80 years, those caring for their parents need to do so for 40 years. But with people having fewer children, it has become practically impossible to take care of their parents. I see my friends, even at the age of 70, still taking care of their parents who are 90. At 70, you yourself are elderly. So, these days, we have the elderly taking care of the elderly.
It’s time to let go of the expectation that your children will take care of you in your old age. Otherwise, you’ll end up feeling disappointed and resentful towards the children you raised. From now on, it’s crucial for spouses to cooperate with each other. From now on, men should stop boasting about how much money they made in their youth, humble themselves, and be nicer to their wives if they want to receive good care until they pass away. Otherwise, they may be driven to an early grave.” (laughter)
“Thank you. I fully understand what you are saying.”
The questions continued:
– What is the difference between positive thinking and self-rationalization? I’m curious about the criteria for distinguishing the two.
– My mother passed away four years ago, and I find that I’m gradually forgetting her. Is it okay to live without feeling guilty?
– How should one handle the ups and downs of life? In my job, I’m constantly conscious of my supervisor’s evaluations and other people’s opinions, and I often worry in advance.
– How can I prevent my negative and anxious mental state from affecting my children and raise them in a healthy way?
– I want to spread Buddhism widely, but I often realize my own foolishness. What perspective should I have?
– I am experiencing burnout due to work. As my happiness decreases, what should I do?
– Is there a way to help my husband feel happy when he is suffering from a heavy workload?
– Empathizing with my wife is the most challenging. What could be the reason?
– What are some ways to resolve cultural differences and racial discrimination in the workplace?
– I regret raising my child with too much ambition. How can I find peace of mind after retirement?
Although Sunim wanted to take more questions, he received a message that due to construction at the Atlanta airport, it was advisable to arrive at the airport three hours prior to departure. Promising to return next year, Sunim concluded with these words:
“You may see many faults in your husband or wife. To others, they are just fine. The problem is that your expectations are too high. In reality, they are decent people. If your husband complains about you, what should you think? When your husband complains about things that you lack, you might easily think he doesn’t appreciate you, but that’s not the case. He actually thinks too highly of you. He is actually overestimating you, which is why he complains. At such times, you can say, ‘Honey, thank you.’ If your husband says, ‘What do you mean?’ you can reply, ‘Thank you for rating me so highly.’ Then, both of you can laugh it off and stop arguing. Complaining stems from overevaluating others.
It’s the same with your own self. You feel life is difficult because you want to be a perfect person. You want to excel at your job and not hurt anybody around you, but there is hardly anyone in this world who can manage to do that. This is called perfectionism, which is akin to OCD. If it’s severe, you might need to seek treatment from a doctor. You must accept that you did your best despite some shortcomings. Dwelling on the past is useless.”
The Dharma Q&A concluded with a big round of applause and was followed by a book signing session.
After the book signing, Sunim immediately packed his bags and headed for the airport. There was some construction at the airport, so he hurried to avoid traffic delays.
“Thank you!”
Upon arriving at the airport, he checked in his luggage and had dinner, which had been packed for him.
After a brief wait at the airport, he boarded his flight to Washington D.C. at 9 PM. Sunim quickly fell into a deep sleep on the plane.
He arrived at the Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport late at night, and by the time he reached the Washington Jungto Center, it was almost midnight.
Tomorrow, he is scheduled to meet with a security expert in Virginia, near Washington D.C., and hold a Dharma Q&A for the Korean community.
